Mayo Performing Arts Center will present talk on ‘The Psychology of Cults,’ Oct. 17

SAMANTHA FITZGERALD

Ashlen Hilliard will talk about “The Psychology of Cults” at The Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown, Oct. 17.

Ashlen Hilliard says her current tour — titled “The Psychology of Cults” and coming to The Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown, Oct. 17 — is about “awareness, education, and ultimately, empowerment.”

A cult intervention specialist who founded, in 2022, the Portland, Oregon-based People Leave Cults organization (which offers intervention and recovery resources for survivors and their loved ones), she is talking about her work, and answering audience members’ questions, in her most extensive tour yet, with events in the South and the Midwest, in addition to the Northeast, throughout October.

Hilliard appeared in the recent Hulu documentary series “How I Escaped My Cult: Ten Stories of Survival” and is the executive producer of “Beyond the Fence,” an upcoming fictional film about four sisters trying to escape the rural Appalachian cult in which they were born and raised.

I talked to her by phone recently.

ASHLEN HILLIARD

Q: So tell me first, how does this work? What is the actual structure of the show?

A: The first hour of the show is basically a scripted talk. It will be me onstage presenting information and also playing video clips: interviews and things like that. Then there’s a 15-minute intermission and then 45 minutes for Q&A: The audience can scan a QR code to submit questions, and I will answer them live.

Because this topic is so nuanced and people have a lot of questions about it, we wanted to give as much time for Q&A as possible. And every community and every group of people probably has different questions to ask. So I’m most looking forward to the Q&A portion of the show.

Q: Is it really different from show to show? I would think people would have similar issues: Either they’ve gone through it themselves or they’ve gone through it with someone in their family, and they’re wondering how to deal with it.

A: Well, I think about how people’s unique cultural backgrounds — maybe their religious affiliations, maybe where they’re located regionally — can inform how they see cults. I’m really interested to see … when I’m in the South, for example, how those questions may differ from being in the Northeast. I think all of our individual backgrounds inform how we view the topic and the questions we may have. But in general, I’m expecting former members of cults to be there; I’m expecting people who are just curious about the topic and want to learn more; I’m expecting families who may have a loved one in a group and are really concerned.

I’m also expecting people who sort of interface with this topic (professionally). I’ve had a few therapists reach out to me on LinkedIn who are excited to come to the show. I’ve been really encouraged by that.

SAMANTHA FITZGERALD

Ashlen Hilliard at a “The Psychology of Cults” event.

Q: I’ve never been in a cult or known anyone who has, but it’s always been fascinating to me. I’ve watched documentaries on it and so on. There’s just something about it that I find very interesting: that you could get so swept up in something and buy into something so much.

I see myself as someone who’s the least likely kind of person to join the cult. When I’m at a concert and the guy says, “Put your hands in the air!,” I’m sitting there thinking, “I’m not gonna put my hands in the air just because you’re telling me to.”

A: I think a lot of people are going to be similar to you, who maybe think, “There’s no way I could ever get involved in that kind of thing.” And I’m really excited to show people how, actually, none of us are immune — we’re all very susceptible. And really break down for people how the process happens psychologically, because I think there’s a part of joining cults that seem almost mystical, right? Supernatural. And really, there’s a whole science behind how to influence and persuade a person. So I’m excited to talk about the topic from that sort of lens.

Q: How did you personally get interested in this topic?

A: My work started in Utah. I was working with survivors of fundamentalist Mormon polygamist groups — very diverse Mormon groups all across the Western U.S. I was a case manager in the Salt Lake City Valley with a nonprofit there. And I was working with women and children who had left the FLDS, for example. It’s one of the more well-known polygamist groups; (FLDS leader) Warren Jeffs is in jail. And it really exposed me to the unique needs of cult survivors who came from really extreme environments. Because we all know that cults may not always look that extreme. Certainly a lot of people recognize cults like Jonestown, Waco, NXIVM — groups like that who are more extreme. ..

That sort of led me into the career of pursuing what’s called cult recovery. I’ve been working in the cult recovery field now for seven years. And I went on to work with an international nonprofit that helps survivors of all types of groups and backgrounds. And I really got plugged in with colleagues in the field and I learned about everyone’s unique experiences: how they’re similar, how they differ, and what is needed in terms of resources in order for someone to recover after being in these groups. There’s so much information on: How can we help ourselves? How can we protect ourselves? And if we’ve been through something like that, how can we like heal?

I went on to get my master’s degree in the psychology of coercive control. I studied what coercion looks like in different settings — whether that’s domestic violence, trafficking, gangs, cults, radicalization — and started my own consulting business called People Leave Cults. That was three years ago now.

Ashlen Hilliard’s “The Psychology of Cults” tour will travel all over The United States in October.

Q: Besides this tour, what do you do to get the word out, about your work?

A: Part of what I do through my online consulting work is I work with survivors. I provide low-cost, accessible consultations with people who have left a cult, and they’re like, “What do I do? What resources are available to me? How do I find a therapist?” I also work with a specialized team of experts who work with families who have loved ones in cults who don’t know what to do. We walk them through the ethics, the strategy, the education. We have a licensed therapist who works with us, to work with the families as well.

So half of my work is with the families and half of it’s with the survivors. And I’ve been doing a lot of media consulting as well. I’ve been on Hulu, I will be on an HBO show: It hasn’t come out yet, but it’s going to be coming out hopefully within the next few months. I’ve been on NewsNation, interviewing. Just trying to get the word out as much as possible, to help reduce stigma, because I think this topic can still seem really scary to people. Sometimes if a topic feels too scary or too traumatic, it’s easier to just not think about it, not talk about it. So I try to make it approachable and interesting.

Q: There’s probably a lot of shame attached, for a lot of people …

A: Oh, of course, yeah.

Q: … that they got tricked or manipulated, or someone from their family did. I imagine it’s a hard subject for a lot of people to even talk about.

A: Yes, it is. And we all know what it’s like to get manipulated, or tricked. We’ve all probably been involved in some sort of credit card or internet scam, right? We all know how that feels, and it doesn’t feel good. The thing that I say keeps people in cults longer than they want to be there is shame, because they’ve tried to recruit their family, their friends, maybe they treated people terribly when they were in. Maybe they depleted all their money. There’s so much shame that comes with that.

Q: Do you think, in general, we’re in a time where the problem of cults is increasing or decreasing, or neither?

A: I think the likelihood of cult involvement increasing is really high because of our online usage. There are a lot of really horrible online groups that recruit young people and adults. We’re seeing a lot of extremist activity come from online places, and that’s really scary. And I think the use of AI … I wouldn’t be surprised if AI is also potentially creating groups for people. There’s been cases of AI induced-psychosis, people using AI as a therapist — you know, AI telling people that they’re giving them special hidden knowledge. And there’s not a whole lot of regulation surrounding this stuff, in order to protect people. I think we’re just kind of seeing the tip of the iceberg as to the long-term ramifications, unfortunately.

Q: And AI could be used, I guess, to find people who are susceptible to cults.

A: Oh my gosh, I can only imagine. Or to help people evade getting caught. There’s all kinds of things that can be searched in AI that cults could use to their advantage. It’s a scary time, I’d say.

Q: So people who come to the talk who want more help … do you give them guidance for, like, next steps?

A: Yes, absolutely. They can check out my website, peopleleavecults.com. I have a lot of resources, blogs, information, video content, even for helping professionals who want to learn more.

I’m always willing to talk to people who are searching for something specific or just want to talk to someone who gets it. I think a lot of the times, people just need to talk to someone who isn’t going to, you know, pathologize them, or be starstruck with, “Oh, your loved one’s in a cult, how cool.” I talk to people who’ve been in cults all day long, and have for seven years. So this stuff is very normalized for me.

It feels so good for them to talk to someone who just gets it. Because when you’re explaining this stuff, it could sound really out there, right? So I think that can be reassuring to people.

The Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown will present “The Psychology of Cults,” Oct. 17 at 8 p.m. Visit mayoarts.org.

For more on the tour, visit psychologyofcults.com.

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